Cooling 2 PCs in a Closet

[billdcat4]

A friend of mine just bought a new PC. He put it in a sort of a hutch with a door that closes over it. Also in this hutch is another PC that controls the house's video cameras, as well as two UPSs and a lot of wires.

This new PC runs a q9400, a 150gb velociraptor, 500gb wd hd, 4gb of Kingston Value Ram, an intel branded P43 mobo, a Zalman 9500 LED HSF, as well as an LG DVD Burner. The case is a normal midtower case that looks a lot like those HP cases with the "personal media drive bay" in the front. There is also a Club3D 9600GT.

The issue in this cabinet is airflow. Hot air seems to build up in the upper back of the cabinet until the PC shuts down. My friend had 9 80mm holes drilled in the bottom-right side of the cabinet which opens up into the desktop area. He then attached 3x 120mm fans and one 80mm fan to this "vent". The thing is, this doesn't fix the issue because a) the hot air still builds up in the upper back and b) there is really no vent for intake at all.

I opened the PC to find the parts listed above and a "Sunshine" branded PSU. It did'nt have a wattage rating on it, nor an efficiency one. It did have a chart though for amperage on the different rails. It has two 12v rails one with 15a and the other with 16a. It is cooled by a 120mm fan. Looking online I see that it might be a 300w model which wouldn't be far off from my guess of 380. I assume such a model would have an efficency of 65-75 percent.

Aside from that the cooling in the case didn't seem to be very good. There are no intake fans whatsoever, but both sides of the case are ventilated. The PSU and the CPU HSF are the two exhaust fans both venting out the upper-back. The only way for air to get in through the front it through a small slit in the underside of the front-bezel.

Perhaps worst of all, the left side (facing the front, the opposite side that the mobo is affixed to) is less than an inch from the wall of the cabinet, this means that what essentially is the only real intake of the case is pretty much blocked off.

My proposed solution is to either get a new case or mod the old one to have at least one 120mm front intake fan (to cool the HDs especially the velociraptor) and have that air be exhausted out the back by the 9500 and PSU. Then it would go to the top of the cabinet and be exhausted by at least 2 120mm fans on the upper-left side of the cabinet venting into a closet (I know, not the best of solutions, but it should work). Two 120mm fans in the bottom right would also intake a bit of air to help cool the lower areas.

There would have to be some modding to the front of the cabinet allowing intake air to come in, how to do this I don't know. My friend is quite against marring the pretty finish of his furniture. He is also against drilling holes in the front of his crappy case. So we might end up getting an Antec 300 or some other case with 120mm intakes assuming it would fit. A temporary solution would be to reorganize the cabinet to allow the vented side of the case more room to breathe. Another nice thing would be to use a higher efficency PSU to create less heat.

By the way we are overseas (in Israel) so everything costs more (e.g. a P182 goes for 850 shekels or 240 dollars and a 4850 for a similar cost)

Got to go, Ill try to post pics later

[mew905]

Umm... I would think phase change or water cooling would be your best bet with such constricted airflow. And yes, a higher efficiency PSU will help. If it's only a 300-380 watt, that will also contribute to the problem because the PSU is going to be working much harder to power that system. Definitely go for a 400 watt minimum, maybe even a 450 or 500w

The Velociraptors actually dont get very hot, they (according to many reviews) usually sit around 36 degrees C.

Course I'd go WC in that case simply because it'd be quieter than having 100 fans going at it trying to throw around whatever air they can get. Always wanted to try WC too, as well as phase change but i dont wanna dismantle my fridge and cant find a supplier in canada

[Farhang]

WC is good but assuming case has a bad air flow, all the parts are suffering from heat problem specially the Kingstone RAM. Besides, you may need a better/bigger case to be able to put all the Watercooling parts inside.

My recommendation would be first a better PSU. (As mew905 said a good 400W minimum)
Then go for a better case. (Antec 300 is perfect)

High temps may be dangerous but a bad PSU will kill the PC faster so if your friend is on budget, i recommend to change the PSU first, then look for a cooling solution!

[orangegator]

WC or phase change is not the answer. The main problem is hot air build up in a small confined space. From what I read billdcat4 has the right ideas on how to address it.

1. Prevent heat generation by using quality 80+ psu.
2. Remove heat generating things from the cabinet. (maybe the ups)
3. Be sure all power save features are enabled so it runs cooler when idle
4. Install more exhaust fans in the cabinet
5. Remove the front door of the cabinet or always have it open to let air in.
6. Better computer case airflow. Make sure it has intake and exhaust fans

[beerandcandy]

if you cant make holes in the top to vent the hot air out maybe you can take a vent hose from a dryer and put it over the fan on the bottom right and put the other end inside the case up at the top to suck the hot air out from the top down and out of the fan at the bottom right

but what i would try to do is make some holes up at the top and get some fans up at the top to blow out the hot air
and reverse the fan on the bottom right to suck in cooler air

[Simul4ti0n]

An 80+ PSU is a perfect 1st step!

I would install some cooling fans in the cabinet if possible, similar to the idea of enclosed server racks.

[logain]

New PSU like Sim said and an Antec 300. Much improved airflow and not a super expensive case.

[Eurasianman]

^ agreed with logain.

At the OP, does it help your friend if he leaves the closet/cabinet door open?

[iDENTITi]

..Watercool it with the rad's outside hte cabinet? hmm..

Otherwise undervolting and under clocking are your friends..

[tool_462]

I may have missed some reasoning but...why doesn't he just take the case...out of the cabinet?

[billdcat4]

Thanks a lot for your answers:

After I posted the first post my friend had an idea: to replace the solid wood front door with a vented one with down-facing horizontal slats. This would allow for space for air to come in.

Several hours after leaving his house the solution for the exhaust problem popped into my head, the same solution as BeerandCandy suggested. Take a tube, connect it to one of the 120mm rear-right exhaust fans, and tape the other end to the upper-back of the case. In case this isn't enough, we could add another 120mm fan in the upper-rear-left of the cabinet venting out into the closet.

According to my friend, the PSU is more than 300W. He said that the guy who built it for him said that he used a higher-wattage model than needed. Nevertheless, I doubt the model is very efficient and can easily be replaced by an 80+ PSU (as many of you agreed) such as a Corsair 550VX.

Whether we get an antec 300 or not, we need to add at least one 120mm fan in the front-intake of each case. Modding the cases, particularly the one I looked at, requires some decent skills. The issue is that there is a height requirement for the case. A full tower will definately not fit and not even a tall midtower. The 300 is 18" tall, I'll have to measure the available space the next time I go there. If I were in America I would pick one up at Microcenter which is 15min away from my house and costs only $40. Here in the middle east it will cost at least $100 eqv.

To answer the questions of why he can't leave the door open is that he (or rather his mother who the PC is for) hates the way PCs look (boo!) and wants them to be hidden away. I suggested getting a pretty Lian Li or Silverstone, but she shot it down.

Also, just to clarify things, money is no issue with this guy; a regular PC for this guy costs $3K (like the Q9400 based machine described before). We are in Israel now and things cost a LOT more.

Thanks a lot and keep it coming!

[Eurasianman]

To answer the questions of why he can't leave the door open is that he (or rather his mother who the PC is for) hates the way PCs look (boo!) and wants them to be hidden away. I suggested getting a pretty Lian Li or Silverstone, but she shot it down.

Wow... that's the first time I've ever heard that. Normally, when I build computers for people, I let them chose the case. If the case is that ugly, why doesn't she just buy some paint and decorate the case?

[billdcat4]

Wow... that's the first time I've ever heard that. Normally, when I build computers for people, I let them chose the case. If the case is that ugly, why doesn't she just buy some paint and decorate the case?

Hey what can I do? Besides kill her and harvest her organs for beer money

Anyhow so how does the idea of:
A) getting a vented front door
B) retrofitting the main PC into an Antec 300
C) Installing at least one 120mm fan in the front-intake of each case
D) Installing a tube to exhaust hot air from the top-rear of the cabinet to the exhuast fans on the bottom-right.
E) If necessary, install another 120mm fan in the rear-upper-right to exhaust into the closet
F) Getting an 80+ PSU such as an Enermax Modu/Pro 82+ 525w or a Corsair 550VX

Hmm?

[Eurasianman]

All of those ideas sound good. However, I'm unsure about the whole, "kill her and harvest her organs for beer money"

[billdcat4]

By the way, when I was checking out his PCs, I took one out to open it up and left the other in the cabinet. When I tried to take the other out (house video-survaillance PC) I realized that it had at least a dozen coaxial cables attached to the back. The thing is I had already taken out the Kb+m PS2 cables and didn't have a way of seeing where they should go back. It was really dark in the back there and without any way to look in. So I used a silver table knife to see where the little green and purple were. Just proud of myself thats all.

To restate though:Anyhow so how does the idea of:
A) getting a vented front door
B) retrofitting the main PC into an Antec 300
C) Installing at least one 120mm fan in the front-intake of each case
D) Installing a tube to exhaust hot air from the top-rear of the cabinet to the exhuast fans on the bottom-right.
E) If necessary, install another 120mm fan in the rear-upper-right to exhaust into the closet
F) Getting an 80+ PSU such as an Enermax Modu/Pro 82+ 525w or a Corsair 550VX

[Apt403]

The exhaust idea, while interesting, seems a bit more complicated than it needs to be. Maybe he should just remove the back of it completely. That seems like it would take care of hot air accumulating in the rear of the cabinet.

I'm not sure if this is feasible, considering I have no idea what this thing looks like, but it seems like it would result in better temps more easily than the exhaust tube.

The rest of the list seems like a pretty sound way of reducing the temps though. iDENTITi's idea to unvolt sounds pretty good as well.

[billdcat4]

The exhaust idea, while interesting, seems a bit more complicated than it needs to be. Maybe he should just remove the back of it completely. That seems like it would take care of hot air accumulating in the rear of the cabinet.

I'm not sure if this is feasible, considering I have no idea what this thing looks like, but it seems like it would result in better temps more easily than the exhaust tube.

The rest of the list seems like a pretty sound way of reducing the temps though. iDENTITi's idea to unvolt sounds pretty good as well.

As far as I know the back wall of the cabinet is flush with the wall.

How much do you think I can shave off of the Q9400's regular load TDP with regular undervolting. Also can an Intel Branded P43 mobo like the one in this rig allow undervolting. As far as I remember intel boards don't support OC'ing.

[billdcat4]

I went over to check on the PC again today, still havent had the chance to upgrade/fix it. It has been running with the door off.

I installed the Intel Mobo Manager app from the intel site and checked the temps etc. The CPU (Q9400 stock cooled by Zalman 9500LED) was running@ 60C with the fan at 2000rpm. I cranked the fan up to 2500rpm which got the CPU down to around 56C. The Memory Controller was at 81C though! It also gave specs for the PSU voltage. The 12V was the closest to spec at 12.2V. All the others were in the yellow zone, the 3.3 and 5V were very off-spec. I also installed ATITool to test the temps of the GPU (9600GT) it started off at 60C and maxed out at 78C, not bad.

The plan is to buy a Corsair 450VX PSU PSU for around $105 equivalent. We also plan to upgrade the case to one that actually has fans eg Antec 300. I measured for the case and it would have around 1" of clearance height-wise. We would also have to connect tubing from the exhaust fans in the lower-right fans to the upper-rear part of the case as discussed before.

We might end up taking the PC out of the cabinet, which would lower temps all around, but I would still get the PSU upgrade. That might also require a case upgrade to a nice Lian Li/Silverstone/Antec P182 (for looks, not cooling)
This would be by far the best option, as even with all of the upgrades and modding, the PC would still get too hot in that deathbox, just not to the extent where it shuts down.

Ideas? Other PSUs: Silverstone Element 400/500, Corsair HX520

[Afrodisiac]

VX550, Corsair.

[billdcat4]

VX550, Corsair.

not sold in this country.

System is Q9400 @stock, 4gb kingston ddr2, intel P43 ATX, Club3D 9600GT, WD Velociraptor 150gb, WD 500gb

Should run fine on 450VX, no?